Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

I just received this email article, and finished reading the whole article.

It was written by Indo Bachelorette who perhaps couldn't find the man she wants to married.

But the issue here is being married will make your life happy and complete??, what makes you think that being married will make the writer's life happy and complete if she is not being happy and complete in her own-self??

Happines is a state of mind, you can be happy at anytime and do not need to wait till you get married, have kids, have a house, or have a great job just be happy right here right now without any reasons.

I was born in Indonesia and spent time from 0 - 16 yrs before moving to Australia permanently, I'm 28 yrs at the moment when I am writing this comment. Maybe my thinking has become western, but at least I am happy and not feelling the pressure. My own parents always let me be what I want to be, always let me who I want to become.

I definitely do not want to go back to the 40's, 50's, 60's or 70's when a single women cannot get a home loan to buy her own place or no one wants to do business with any women at the time because most business owners are men. Women received so much discrimination in that era. No wonder that there are so many women commit suicide in that era.

We don't need man to lead us to the higher ground, there are more than 2 billions men live in this world, the sky not even the limit, we can go higher than galaxy.

We don't need to refuse to settle down with anybody, each individual is unique, unfortunatley we cannot sterotype that Eastern men are mere grown-up babies, it's all depends on the individual what they want and what do they need at that time as our needs and wants continuely changing overtime.

The point is even though I will never married, I don't see it as a stigma, who cares what people think of me. The most important thing is what I do think of myself... What we do think of ourselves... We live in this life only once, we live for us first then for others not the other way around. Why waste our time thinking when we gonna get married, who will be my perfect partner, where will I meet him?? Why not we used our time in this world to advance our life and the life of others.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Quoting yourself: "it is time to realize that it takes two hands to clap". Yet, why do you keep on wondering why you're not getting married yet, and blaming all the guys out there? If you're a sophisticated modern lady as you claim to be, you should identify your own problem and go solve it, rather than waiting for your problem to be solved. If you're no longer conservative as you claim to be, you can always make your move first. Men and women are all equal now. You can choose how you want to live your life. Just look at Virna.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

I think the purpose of Indo Bachelorette writing this article is to make us start thinking why the number of single Indonesian girls are increasing recently. She has a point when telling that girls are becoming more demanding than previous generations. For instance, unlike women from previous generations, I, myself won't want to marry a man who will sit and expect me to do househould chores. Unfortunately, most Indonesian men I know are already used to have other people do housework for them. But that's not the sole reason why we decide to get married later in life. We have lots of opportunities ahead of us, pursuing higher degree, climbing corporate ladder, and traveling. All these things are difficult to be done when we already have wives and mommies responsibility. So, we postponed it as long as possible until we are ready to take those responsibilities.
This phenomenon has been happening since long time ago in developed countries (US, Australia, European countries). We are just getting there.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

In my opinion, to remain single is about choice, priority and the woman's luck. Women have become more sophisticated and highly-educated these days that our criteria for a life-long partner will naturally rise and the definition of a happy marriage will also shift along with the change of mindset. And they are largely influenced by our education and surroundings. What if the woman choose to remain single because he hasn't found the one? She has no luck yet. What if she still wants to be free and travel around without any burdening commitments and responsibilities? Her priority is not finding a man and get married for now. Then what if eventually the woman choose to be single her whole life? So be it! It's her choice. It's really not all about men's fault or ego or the culture change that make us women decide to be single or get married later in life. It's about our priority in life.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

From what I see so far, females in general tend to try to "marry up". For example, how many university graduate ladies out there are really willing to marry a guy with only secondary school (SMP) education? Or willing to marry guys who earn, say, 50% less than their own salary? Even for those who are willing, the people around them are likely to react negatively. As the ladies get better educated and rise higher in the corporate ladder, it is just going to be harder and harder to find gentlemen who are of "equal or higher caliber". What's wrong with females "marrying down" anyway?

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Because you limit your choice to only fellow Indonesian professional in Singapore, the pool becomes very small. As you are in your late 20, so the man needs to be at least 30 and above, I presume. And I am telling you, it is not that there are no such man in Singapore that can fulfill your criteria. But these "great" guys are mostly already attached, if not married. What do you expect? They are such a good catch, and you expect them to remain single in their 30s? :)

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

A great article that incite so many comments. Thanks to the writer for sharing her feelings & kudos for the excellent write up.

I agree with her arguments starting with women having higher education, better career prospects, being too independent, which leads to higher expectations.... to Indomen being a mommy's boy, lacking leadership, expecting wife to do housework etc.

Many of these are happening globally, while some are very Indo specific. And it's really interesting for me to note these Indo specific ones, which require a different set of "solutions" & mindset change.

A couple of observations I made while back in Indo for CNY:

- People marry at a younger age, so those girls in the late 20’s & early 30’s are at a distinct disadvantage, as there aren’t many qualified men left in their 30’s.
- Indomen tend to mature later & I can see them being able to lead the family once they have kids; i.e. when responsibilities comes. This is also when they start to overwrite their parents' "opinions".
- Giving up your career to be a Tai2 is not such a bad thing, most of these women are enjoying their time.
- Maids are still easy to get in Indo & Sgp, so don't fret too much if you see an Indoman who is clueless on housework.

What am I trying to say here? My two cents are:

- Instead of thinking of reasons why Indomen are that way, try to first accept them as they are, then you may find the positive points in them too.
- I feel that girls need to moderate their expectations; it’s usually with low expectations that you can get a good find.
- Men are men; they are intimidated with women who are perceived superior than them. Possible to be the cute little girl that we always dreamed of? ;)

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

To Virna:
Its perfectly fine for you to choose to live a solitary life. However, there is nothing wrong either to wanting to have a married life. And for those who prefer to get married and have a family, it is only logical for them to set out the intention of finding the right person clearly, and then put in the necessary effort and action to reach out and find that right person.
From her article, I do not find that the writer is in anyway unhappy with her life currently, or just wasting time whining her fate as you seemed to suggest.
She indeed says "We continue living our lives to the fullest, and refuse to settle down just with anybody, just for the sake of “it’s time”.

Which bring me to Joe:
Joe writes "you should identify your own problem and go solve it, rather than waiting for your problem to be solved"
She just did, didn't she?. She identified the problems in such an eloquent way, why she still remains single in her late 20s. But of course, whether those reasons are real and valid is another story.
And I believe she is working on finding the right person, instead of just sittng at home or in office waiting for the prince charm to drop from the sky.

So people, please read the article thoroughly before writing feedback. Otherwise, you would be doing injustice to the writer who has put in so much effort in articulating her thoughts eloquently. Thank You.
And please be assured, I am not the writer her self. :)
I am man in his late 30s, happily married with the love of his life.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Well said John!

I could very well understand why Indo girls would limit themselves to Indo men, & vice versa. I have so many friends who still only go after Indonesians even when in US, Australia, & Sgp of course. However, the pool of Indonesian "Diamond Bachelors" in Singapore is truly small; perhaps you can try to find a partner whenever you are back in Indonesia? The “market” there is bigger…

For some of you who feel marriage is optional, sure… it's definitely a personal choice; but for me who have been happily married for 10 yrs, I will never encourage that. I think you may be missing many of the most important things in life.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

To Virna:
Its perfectly fine for you to choose to live a solitary life. However, there is nothing wrong either to wanting to have a married life. And for those who prefer to get married and have a family, it is only logical for them to set out the intention of finding the right person clearly, and then put in the necessary effort and action to reach out and find that right person.
From her article, I do not find that the writer is in anyway unhappy with her life currently, or just wasting time whining her fate as you seemed to suggest.
She indeed says "We continue living our lives to the fullest, and refuse to settle down just with anybody, just for the sake of “it’s time”.

Which bring me to Joe:
Joe writes "you should identify your own problem and go solve it, rather than waiting for your problem to be solved"
She just did, didn't she?. She identified the problems in such an eloquent way, why she still remains single in her late 20s. But of course, whether those reasons are real and valid is another story.
And I believe she is working on finding the right person, instead of just sittng at home or in office waiting for the prince charm to drop from the sky.

So people, please read the article thoroughly before writing feedback. Otherwise, you would be doing injustice to the writer who has put in so much effort in articulating her thoughts eloquently. Thank You.
And please be assured, I am not the writer her self. :)
I am man in his late 30s, happily married with the love of his life.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

A good topic, indeed, and it's always interesting to understand another person's point of view. Thanks for sharing.

Anyways, though the topic is interesting, I struggled when reading this article.

At first I thought that the author is trying explain about her effort in finding the one when she has to live in Singapore. However, a lot of her arguments are generalizing her view to other Indonesian girls living in Singapore. Although I appreciate the opinions in this article, lots of arguments in this article are quite shallow.

But Kudos for IPA and I look forward to reading more people's opinions =).

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

I think educated woman these days has very high expectation toward men....whereas the pressure man facing from work is huge considering singapore work environment 'kiashu' and 'unfriendly'.

We have rare chances to meet each other, know him/her deep in personality....sometimes we just know the skin and tend to have mis-perception. We think that she/he has bad behaviours, too quiet, 'not flushing the toilet' etc etc....
Remember, we don't focus too much on small things such as 'not flushing the toilet' and we forget major things/view/religion that can lead to divorce. So many marriage fails, just because we want to build castle in the sky....not knowing the reality.

Wake-up, boys and girls!
The landscape now has change in term of work environment and education, so as our attitude. Be more flexible, know what you wnat in priority list and try to understand and acceptable different individual as "unique". Wishing everybody good luck!

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Hmmm... Lady author, what is exactly your point? I know you are up to some good, but the arguments are scattered all over the place. A lot of sophisticated vocabularies, yet the whole story is confusing. Or this is the editor not doing a very good job? ;)

Anyway, men-women topics are indeed interesting. Whatever your stand is, just be honest with it. I hate seeing girls whining about how guys are scared of their independence when at the same time eagerly nodding at how NOT going down on one knee for a marriage proposal is blasphemous -_-"

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

"Although I appreciate the opinions in this article, lots of arguments in this article are quite shallow." --> Everybody have the right to have opinions, that is BLOG is all about....

If the writer didnt want to have somebody opinion..maybe she should not write in the blog.
But i think the writer just want to make a statement for her experience.

From Me; I just say that..dont be judmental about other people. (for the writer's case is boys/man).
You think to much about other people but you lack of judging about yourself.
If you think that there is a problem with your life then the Perfect Start will be yourself.

Try to change yourself first then you can expect other people to change.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

John, why so many identical posts?

Little wonder: Your advice on changing oneself is good. However, expecting other people to change is pretty much an exercise in futility.

Also, if the article contributor think that Overseas Indonesian Gals are having problems finding Mr. Right, trust me, the guys are not having it any easier. Indonesian ladies in general would only have to compete with other Indonesians. Indonesian guys (I'm one of them) have to compete with Singaporeans, Malaysians, and others for your attention.

Out of all the Indonesian-Foreigner pairings out there (in Singapore at least), I observe that a much greater number of the Indonesian half of the pair is female. This also quite true even for Singaporean ladies. For the Singaporean-Foreigner pairs out there, the majority are Singaporean-female and Foreigner-male pairs. Why is this so? I can't say for sure. I've been in plenty of situations where a lady's attitude would cool down upon hearing that I'm from Indonesia. Temperature dops further when they know that I don't have a Car, nor Condo, nor Credit Card. (Credit Card - by choice, I don't believe in Consumer Debt. "Good" debts such as Student Loans and Mortgages are fine. Car - also by choice. Having one in Singapore is a pure money waster unless your job requires it. Condo - err, you got me there. Can't afford one.) I also happen to know of an Indonesian guy whose Singaporean wife absolutely refuse to accompany him whenever he goes back to visit his family.

This might sound harsh, but I have this feeling that Indonesian guys are being perceived as of "lower caliber" by the Foreign ladies, and now, even by our own country mates. *Sigh*

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

While I do not necessarily agree with all her arguments and reasoning, I have to admit that the lady’s writing skill is admirable by any standards.
I do read some international magazines like Times or Newsweek on a regular basis.
Objectively speaking, in terms of the writing style and the use of vocabulary, this article could well be placed along side with those articles published in the magazines I mentioned earlier. Thus, I’d like to give the credit where it’s due.

And for those who “struggle to understand the writing”, or “find the whole story confusing and all over the place”,…
let me just say this: The next time you find yourself standing in front of a huge painting and not having the slightest clue what on earth that painting is all about, it is not because the painting or the painter sucks, it’s because you simply lack the artistic capability and knowledge to appreciate it.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Anon,
I do think that you have a real case there.
my heart goes out to you =)
Please don't give up hope ok?

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

To dear miss bachelorette.
From overall your story, i can conclude you actually dont know what you want.
Let us see from your early story:
1.You said in 1st paragraph, you can be consider as a "girl" among your friends, that make me wonder are you a really women here and are you really can represent yourself for indonesian ladies. strengthen by your assertion in paragraph2.
2.You describe yourself as an ambitius woman, and want higher education, etc. but the motivation that drives you is clearly questionable.
3.You mentioned that higher education and opportunity only provided by those who studied overseas. I strongly disagree your assertions. anyhow it sounds you had an overseas education and yet you still accusing your mom as "conservative"? by that i doubt your intergrity.
4.Somehow you drag your personal matters become a social issue by bring in society point of view in your arguments, and you believe your "bachelorette" is justifyable, i hardly see the connections, as you even had through what is called marriage.
5.Your personal judgement is personal, because you have brought in your personal experience in judging indonesian men.
6.You brought in examples of younger indonesian women you met, that implied a bacherolette status as you are. its an not strong arguement as you can prove it.
7.In terms of your expectations, do you know clearly what expectation really is? you mentioned indonesian guys cant catch up, etc. My question is:"Who are you, dare to judge?". Are you want afancy life, a high profile life? but sounds you dare not even to enter a relationship. and yet you also never even bother ask your friends and your mom's friends whether their daughter has a better life after marriage.
8.you comparing indonesian guys with other guys? not that we, inonesian guys dare not to be compared, but clearly your stance already absurd before comparing.
9.when you talk, that women only want to have career instead to "be independent", do you know that there is something call communication, and both party must as well aware on their responsibilities in the family.
10.Therefore i strongly recommend you to have a healthy relationship, before you further jugding and at the end you walk alone in ally with regret. Marriage is beautiful for those who belief.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

John, why so many identical posts?

Little wonder: Your advice on changing oneself is good. However, expecting other people to change is pretty much an exercise in futility.

Also, if the article contributor think that Overseas Indonesian Gals are having problems finding Mr. Right, trust me, the guys are not having it any easier. Indonesian ladies in general would only have to compete with other Indonesians. Indonesian guys (I'm one of them) have to compete with Singaporeans, Malaysians, and others for your attention.

Out of all the Indonesian-Foreigner pairings out there (in Singapore at least), I observe that a much greater number of the Indonesian half of the pair is female. This also quite true even for Singaporean ladies. For the Singaporean-Foreigner pairs out there, the majority are Singaporean-female and Foreigner-male pairs. Why is this so? I can't say for sure. I've been in plenty of situations where a lady's attitude would cool down upon hearing that I'm from Indonesia. Temperature dops further when they know that I don't have a Car, nor Condo, nor Credit Card. (Credit Card - by choice, I don't believe in Consumer Debt. "Good" debts such as Student Loans and Mortgages are fine. Car - also by choice. Having one in Singapore is a pure money waster unless your job requires it. Condo - err, you got me there. Can't afford one.) I also happen to know of an Indonesian guy whose Singaporean wife absolutely refuse to accompany him whenever he goes back to visit his family.

This might sound harsh, but I have this feeling that Indonesian guys are being perceived as of "lower caliber" by the Foreign ladies, and now, even by our own country mates. *Sigh*

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

This commenting page is kinda buggy I think...

Refreshing the page even when the field is blank seems to cause double posting.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Thank YOU "sigh......" for making the effort to give a detailed constructive feedback! :D

@John: I don't remember reading Times articles that use "I' in a paragraph and jump to "we" in the next... But maybe it's just me not reading magazines that much. Can you please kindly summarize this article's objective? :)

@Anon - for now: Aww... You seem like a real sweetheart. Don't worry, there still ARE Indonesian girls who dig local guys, even those without cars/houses/CCs/you name it... There are some of us who still believe the key ingredient to a happy love life is whether or not we can click with our partner. I'm sure you will find your girl :) And you're right, we should never lie to ourselves that people can change...

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Dear Ms. Indo Bachelorette,
I have some questions for you. just for the sake of curiousity.
It would be greatly appreciated if you are willing to answer it publicly here.

You claim that you and your group of single-lady friends have these traits: well educated, more than just attractive, possibly well-groomed and poised to boot.

and you also mentioned these: "So what’s ‘wrong’ with such an Indonesian woman? Shouldn’t there be men be lining up to ask for her hand in marriage with such criteria? Not really as it turns out... first of all men would be too intimidated to even approach her, thanks to a lack of healthy dose of self-esteem."

My question is this:
Based on my observation, the truly "well educated, more than just attractive, possibly well-groomed and poised to boot" kinda gals should normally have lots of suitors. And they will take their own sweet time to filter the suitors until they get the so-called best.

But for your case, are you saying that there is hardly any man approaching you as indicated by your sentence quoted above? In other words, you and you friends have no suitors all this while?

If that is true, then I am wondering,.... when you describe yourself as more than attractive, what standard are you referring to?

When no one is approaching, you assume that it is because the guys are intimidated by your high caliber. But could it be because they simply not interested? or they do not find you attractive, or worse still they find you and your group of friends annoying because you all are acting like you are so attractive when you are actually not?
Could it be possible that way?

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Thank YOU "sigh......" for making the effort to give a detailed constructive feedback! :D

@John: I don't remember reading Times articles that use "I' in a paragraph and jump to "we" in the next... But maybe it's just me not reading magazines that much. Can you please kindly summarize this article's objective? :)

@Anon - for now: Aww... You seem like a real sweetheart. Don't worry, there still ARE Indonesian girls who dig local guys, even those without cars/houses/CCs/you name it... There are some of us who still believe the key ingredient to a happy love life is whether or not we can click with our partner. I'm sure you will find your girl :) And you're right, we should never lie to ourselves that people can change...

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

John: I love all your comments - spot on! I found the article quite refreshing and well-articulated...

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

After reading through the above comments, I can't help but concluded that the issue of "finding the one" lingers in almost every individual's mind, regardless of gender & background. For both for men & women, be it for those with liberal vs conservative perspectives, equipped with high-calibre capabilities vs just another plain Jack/Jane.

In my opinion finding the one is just the beginning of our life battle. The sequel will be to go through the peaks & troughs of courtship, ups and downs of marriage, and then followed by challenges of managing a family of our own. I believe all these take a lot of effort & patience beyond my imagination to go through & finally be successful in one.

My point is let's not take a only "rational point of view" and forget the magical love that sweeps us off our feet or makes our heart skip a beat. As much as I agree that we shouldn't settle for 2nd best, I think at the same time we shouldn't be driven only by materials/superficial measurement when it comes a finding the one. Many of us have a come a long way, far from our homeland, and as nature takes its course we've developed a set of expectations & perspective towards life. It's only natural that the process of putting two distinct individuals together is even tougher as time passes by.

I've been feeling like a stigma for sometime, being single where everybody else are married with kids for a long time and everytime my relationship fails, it adds on another worry that I'll be the only one left on the shelf. And all these while, I've been pinning hope on being in a relationship and imagine how happy I would be if I have the man of my life. I was pretty sure that I would lead a better life by than. However things are far from perfect. There's no such thing called the "man of my life" in the very beginning and now that I'm in a relationship for barely a few months, I come to notice that I've been such an ignorant in the past. I was idealistic and had a strong opinion of what a life partner should be and what kind of calibre he should possess to be "on par" or even "higher" than me.

I have a strong feeling that I've met "the man" but I also realized that we have to work together to be "the man & women" of each other. These few months he and our relationship taught me a lot. I now believe that it's not just the calibre of the individual that matters in building the relationship, but even more important is the emotion, patience, effort, care, trust & respect (to name a few) that you put into a relationship that will more or less contribute to its survival & progress.

To Anon, now I agree with you, there's nothing wrong with "marrying down" (i'm not married yet, but I can't find the right word to use in this context). I feel most blessed now than in any of my past "marrying up" relationship.

To John, am inspired by you and look forward to be a better partner and be the love of "my man's life.

To Bachelorette, your flow of eloquence in your writing already depicts the supremacy in you and as a representative of us 'Venus' you have me envy with awe.

In the spirit of Valentine's day, let's all remember in our daily battle to keep up with the world, there's still this lil' thing called LOVE.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Dear Ms. Bachelorette,

I understand your feelings since i have a family member that is currently facing the same problem. I still recall my conversation with her and it seems that the problems you share are the same, so if its any consolation, here's my two cents on this matter.

Many Indonesian guys are conservatively raised, which means that they provide for the wife and children. This indirectly means that the wife should not have a better pay or career than his. The ability to provide is a must as it garners respect from the wife and children. Being a provider, he also wants the wife to ideally spend more time with the family and not pursue career so much.

This is where everything breaks down. As a modern woman, it is understandable that you would like to pursue as much as possible. With the amount of sacrifice that you make to get a higher education and a good job, it seems pretty impossible for a husband or future spouse to put a brake and request for you to look after your family. So a combination of conservatively raised guys and the emancipation of women is an infinite loop like the chicken and egg question. Who should take a step back?

I try not to take sides but i agree with what you say, "two hands are needed to clap". Both parties need to take a step back and do their parts. The woman needs to realize that they fulfill their destiny like bearing a child while the man must also realize that their wife is an individual and have their needs and wants as well.

I believe that are a lot of decent guys out there for you, it's just a matter whether you can take that one step back.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

It's well written...
Reminds me of a book titled Single Picky Girl, by Janice Wong, a singaporean columnist in Straits Times. It's a light hearted approach on the same issue.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Earlier this morning, I wrote a response addressing some of the key questions posted in this comments log so far. It is quite long, probably longer than my original column! I thought it overly long for a post-column comment, and hence hesitated to post it.

Then came along "wander" (and thereafter “Don” and “W”), and after I read her post, I am very much moved by her words and thus re-organised my thoughts, before plucking up the courage once again to post this.

First I have to say it was not personal wish to to publish my thoughts in this column to begin with, as this is something so private and close to my heart to discuss a non-happening event of my life which would be seen as a ‘failure’ by conventional Indo standards. But I do it finally (after much assurance by the IPA editor that even any storm will pass after the publication of this column) because I think it will bring out a healthy discussion – she hopes – of some sort among Indonesian professionals here and bring more feedback to everybody's lives, even those who are just reading this on the quiet, and I know there are many who are.

I am happy there are people who have understood the point of the column, and for those who misunderstood or just could not understand, it is ok to think of me now as you wish, as we are all now behinds facades of pseudonyms where nobody knows who is exactly speaking and in what context and from what backgrounds we come from. Whatever we read out from this piece, we bring our histories into the readings and image a world as we know it. Whatever your rantings and nitpicks are, it does show more of who you than it shows of me, because your perceived notions of the context i am writing it from is a reflection of your world, not mine.

When we speak in generalities, there are always exceptions to the rule. But why we generalise is because it's a common phenomenon and makes it easier to discuss issues this way. It is by no means saying EVERYONE without exception is the same. Certainly this article is not talking about you per se, even if you ARE an Indo guy. Why? Because, really, do I know you to begin with? If you don’t fit into the category of Indo men who behave as I have observed and noted, then go on your way in peace but please don’t feel offended. What should my thoughts – a stranger – that much to you? Would EVERY indo girl think the same way as me just because a segment of us Indo women population do? Well, there will be many other indo women who don’t think like us – and they certainly don’t face the same situations as we do thankfully – so take heart! There are more than one cookie-cutter mould in this world, more than you can count with your fingers and toes.

And should we start to learn to think like them? I’d love to be, but no, none of we can be truly, even if we want to change the spirit in us. We have been through a different life process and we encounter vastly different experiences from the other “cute little girls”, we can’t be like them, even if we want to because it’s simpler to live the life of a little girl. It’s very sad not to be able to go back to those times where we can always be “cute little girls”. And I think more of us are facing this.

So this article is meant to bring to public what I observe – again these are just personal observations -- as some possible root causes to a spreading syndrome to our country as we become more cosmopolitan and more of us women venture out of Indo through the years: increasingly diverging mindsets of Indo men and women. It is both a blessing and a curse for both parties. Of course my reasonings could be wrong, as anyone out there can be. For who knows the REAL ABSOLUTE reason, really? Not even the professors in universities could! They too could only be entitled to their not-exactly-infallible theories. But as human beings with brains and thoughts, we respect each other’s views, and agree to be disagree on some points. That makes what the world an interesting place as I know it to be.

I also have to say this: indeed I live life to the fullest: i enjoy what I do and I enjoy learning from everyone: in career, in personal life, in family life. Nor am I pining away for Prince Charming, nor a perfect guy, but somebody I can live with. As they say, it is easier to find somebody you can't live without than somebody you can live with for the rest of your life. That I found to be true. I believe I speak for many of my other galfriends too -- older and younger -- on this.

Pity us if you will, or if it makes you feel better, if you think it makes us feel good to think of our men this way. Who among us women don’t have brothers or fathers or uncles or grandfathers? Are we not shooting at ourselves in the foot by saying ‘bad’ of Indo men? You can decide for yourself, if my observations are very true/true/partially true/not true at all of some of men in the family you know or friends you know. It’s your call, your choice, and I am not saying you must think like me. I am just saying these are my opinions and observations. I lived through these experiences; therefore I know they are real, even if you and your friends have been lucky enough not to face what my friends and I have faced.

It frightens me to write this post, even though I have first written it in a lighthearted way. But I have written this not because I hate men, but because at the end of the day, this is what I observe from many Indo men. And the trend I observe makes me sad, because I am talking about the people closest to me too. Fortunately I have met men who bucked the trend, and yes, indeed they are happily married and I am glad that they are! People should really be as happy as possible, life is indeed to short to be whining or finger-pointing: a counter-productive and non-effective way to resolving an issue. I am not even saying that only a group of Indo men are like this: well maybe all men of all nationalities are actually big babies masquerading as men, if it makes the Indo men feel better! We just happen to be discussing the Indo men here because they are quite a natural first choice for us Indo women, no? And face it, Indo boys really have it so much better than other nationalities in many ways generally (please note the word "generally").

Again, I am not saying women are perfect and men are lousy. Please don't think that way. But what I am saying is this (this is as plain as plain English can be): Indo women have evolved because of circumstances and more opportunities; have Indo men moved with the times too simultaneously or are they still stuck in the era of the great-great-grandfathers? Should men change alongside too as we do, or should they remain as they are and that it is the women – be it our friends, sisters or maybe even our future daughters – who have to stop the evolution of Indo womanhood and go back to where we “belonged”: just the shopping malls and the kitchens? Men and women of Indonesia, what is your say then?

Nonetheless I still do think if indeed there are areas we both can improve in (say mindsets and as some pointed out, it’s a give and take process); I certainly am trying to improve myself, though it’s hard, for my own sake, all the time, as life is about learning. However, the problem with me is I no longer know what else of me I should change! There are many things that you all have suggested that I have already done before even before you wrote so above. But what I find is this: whatever I change of me, it can't conquer the basic fundamental hope that women are indeed looking for men to look up to. I have no idea where these men are anymore. Maybe, we are all at the wrong places.

But anyway it is hard to exactly say it all in this short column.

Finally a special big thanks to constructive comments and feedback from some of you that made me understand a little more of the world - especially John and Indomen (you have brought a very interesting insight to which I wish can follow). To John's curious public question, I'm sorry to report that I do have my fair share of admirers, old and young, and not just from Indonesia too. Too many to count in the past years, as my best friend says now! Sure, maybe we have been delusional, as our admirers had been (well sometimes I think they must be!).

And to "wander", a big thank you for baring your soul as I have in this corner of the vast internet galaxy. You have made me hope and made me think in a different perspective, just in time for Valentine's day! I hope it works out for you and your loved One, so please post something here the day you realise that this is indeed ‘it’ and you’ve decided to spend the rest of your lives together! This will be so inspirational for the rest of us.

For the rest who have commented, gave constructive suggestions/ideas/perspectives without going ballistic all over the place, and even thought kindly of me, a big thank you from my heart. I am glad you choose to think the better side of me, even though we are all but strangers hiding behind pseudonyms at this point!

Meeting some of the thinking Indonesian minds here – though briefly – is my greatest rewards for daring to wear my heart on my sleeve this time around. Thank you for your honest opinions, now indeed I know we Indos have more thinkers than we think!

Thanks again for reading. This is a totally unedited post, maybe a little too long, and so I hope the IPA editor doesn't flip when she reads this!! Finally, have a lovely Valentine's Day to everyone reading this, no matter where you are.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Indo Bachelorette: I am with you all the way. Indeed, I and my Indo galfriends do have exactly the same experience as you do. Not that we complain! In fact, we are pretty happy with the way things are now, because this experience simply reminds us how far we have come.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Re: Since the gals are "evolving" their roles in the society, why aren't the guys following suit?

This is one thing that I really don't get. From what I perceive, so far, this "evolution" of role involves mainly of females taking more and more "traditionally male" role - the bread-winner role.
- Getting better educated
- Leaving the kitchen and home to battle the sharks in the business world
- Stopped being office flowers and started climbing the corporate ladder
- Earning serious amount of money (and by right, need not expect their dates to pay for dinner anymore, but, well, old habits die hard?)

What role can we males "evolve" to? Because unless there's a new third generic role out there (other than bread-winner and home-maker), I really don't see any other path of "evolution" other than going for the home-maker role. While I'm not saying that the ladies ought to "return to the kitchen", think about this: *somebody* has to be in the kitchen. Now, can you "look up" to a guy who's taken the home-maker role? A guy who picks up the kids from school/daycare center, cooks dinner at home (also breakfast and packs lunch), runs a hot bath for dear wifey, provides hot oil massage, and able to fix lightbulbs with one hand while vacuuming the floor with the other.

I don't think there's anything wrong with guys being home-makers, but is this the "evolution" that's expected by the ladies? If it is, then isn't it just a reversal of roles of sort? I can understand the ladies wishing for the guys to pick up the slack in house chores if they are also office goers, but this is an after marriage stuff right? Or you people discuss potential house chore timetables when you're dating?

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Dear Keti,
So you find "sigh...." comments "detailed and constructive",.....which means you understand them pretty well, right?
But at the same time you find indo bachelorette's writing "confusing and all over the place".
Really? I mean,....seriously? Would you please read both of them again carefully and compare them?
I am not trying to be mean or anything here, but come on...

Dear "wander on",
I totally have no idea what I said that inspired you. But I am glad that I somehow did =).
My heartfelt congratulation to you on finding "the man". And I sincerely hope everything will work out smoothly for you guys.

Dear Anon,
I believe by "male evolution", she means that Indonesian Men to grow to accept women wider roles in modern society, instead of confining them to, i quote, "where they belong: malls and kitchen".


Dear Lady Bachelorette,
I really admire your English writing skill. It's even more extraordinary given that English is not your first language.
And thanks for answering my questions, really appreciate it.
Please don't give up your ideals and beliefs. Hold on to it with all your convictions, and it will pay off big time.
How do I know?
Coz I'd been down that path before, I'd been through the same phase as you are in right now.
Well,...not exactly the same coz I am a guy and you are a lady. But the fundamentals are very similar.
cheers

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Dear thinking Indonesian girls..(yes especially you Indo Bachelorette)

I read with great interest the original writing and responses that followed. Not only the diversity of views on the topic at hand is enlightening, but it also resonates with me, an Indonesian man(boy?) who has entered his early 30s life and is yet to finish the journey to find The One.

I want to share another perspective. That is from 'the other side'. That it is not only Indonesian girls who find it challenging to find the one person whom she wants to spend the rest of eternity with. That it is shared equally among women and men, the idea of a love fulfilled life in a holy matrimony, upbringing children and preparing them well so that they can conquer the world and live through a wonderful life with all of its goodness and bad. That my partner and I are really there for each other faithfully in sickness and health, and when God calls us and says "it's time", the children are ready and they will be alright.

Circumstances and choices that are both beyond and within our control have played a great part in our life. In this context, things that have lead to us either being single or having found The One.


Love Can Build a Bridge?

Some say love can (should) amend any rift and differences between two people in a relationship. Is it always true in all cases and circumstances?

Most of us will find that unfortunately we are not living in an ideal world where everyone has common ideals of what they want and do not want in life. I am not talking about people wanting to have someone who is fully perfect, with not even the tiniest blemish in her/him. Who am I to judge others, when I myself am far from perfect, when sometimes it is exactly her flaws that make her so dearly to me, a perfect imperfection.

And with this, love does pull two people together, love forgives, love enables seeing beyond the boundaries of the mind and feeling the real essence of two souls fusing together. That, what is most important is where and how the two see themselves being partners running through life's journey. Not just now, not only tomorrow, but for many many years in the future.

Building a relationship is like building a bridge. A bridge of opportunities. Every inch forward is a step closer towards two people making a connection. Anticipating, compromising, sacrificing, putting in the time and effort to make it happen. Sometimes One pauses, gotten tired, bemused, frustrated. Then see the Other One in all earnestness striving to get things done, keeping and sometimes doubling the pace, understanding, and being supportive. It feels like a sweet fresh breeze that encourages One to keep on going. Until eventually the two completes the connection, ready to take on the next journey.

In other cases, a person stops and reflects. Then figures out that it is not a bridge that is built on alignment of principles and convergence of views on where and how one wants to take the journey of life. The bridge crumbles. There has never been sufficient unselfish love, and too much of self-love, to keep things from falling apart. After all, it was never built on a solid foundation and there is too huge of a disconnect to make things better.

Where and how one starts often determines where one finishes.


Happiness Is Not a State of Mind

Happiness is real. You can feel it in your heart and it flows through the body. The body 'talks about it' and it radiates. Others around us can see it. They know and feel how real our happiness is, as good as they can also tell if we are faking it.

I respect those who are genuinely happy with being single as a choice of life. But I think there are some who might force themselves to think that they feel happy. Merely creating a state of mind that is contrary to the fact, and not being true to themselves.

I perceive some of the responses revolving around the topic of 'traditional' vs 'modern' are driven by the sentiment of feminism, the belief that women have equal rights to men in economics, intellectual, political, social, etc.

Some may even go as far as wanting a man who will do full household chores that were 'traditionally' part of women's role whilst at the same time demanding the man to be successful breadwinner of the family, the women being able to chase as high a career as they can be, and have a family with children being showered with all of the attention and love that they need.

That was quite a mouthfull, but in short, these women, who might be ultra-feminists, want to have their cake and eat it, too.

I do not think that it is a reasonable expectation in this 'modern' era when the world runs so fast (think email, blackberry, business travels). It is the world of dog-eat-dog business and career competition, where one needs to work hard, smart, and putting in many hours to keep the head above the water and get distinguished from the other as a top performer.

How many women are there who can genuinely respect and accept a stay-home husband? An apron-armor wearing, clothing-iron shielding, and duster yielding man is a far cry from a sword thrusting Knight riding on a white horse with a shining armor who will save the princess and “sweep her off her feet”. This may be an exaggeration (or not), but I am sure you get the point.


Me, and The Men

I truly celebrate this era when women have more freedom and opportunities in taking greater role in the society, business, and politics. I despise men who only see women as a means for pro-creation, recreation, and object to surrender at his knees to his every whim. I condemn the sissies who lay a hand on women, instead of using rationales and loving gestures to convey a message and get what he wants.

Ibu Sri Mulyani and Ibu Siti Fadillah are great Indonesian women who show real strength of character and capabilities, widely respected and admired by women and men alike. I, and many men, will feel honored to be working with them and under their guidance. They are no less capable than men in many respects, and even be more capable than some men.

The way that I see relationship between a man and woman, that I am sure is also shared by many Indonesian men, can be reflected in the following poem (which is best said in its original form).

Wanita diciptakan dari tulang rusuk pria
Bukan dari kepalanya untuk lebih tinggi darinya
Bukan dari pundaknya untuk memikul bebannya
Bukan dari kakinya untuk lebih rendah darinya

Tapi, wanita diciptakan dari tulang rusuk pria
Dekat jantungnya untuk dikasihi
Dekat hatinya untuk dicintai
Dan dekat lengannya untuk dilindungi


As a man, I see myself as the leader, main bearer of the well-being of my family, the main breadwinner. I will be the one who makes the ultimate decision on most family matters. At the same time I recognize my wife as someone with whom I share the responsibilities, whose opinions and role are as important in building the family.

Women can be as or more capable than men in many respects. But some might have forgotten that men and women are also inherently different in many aspects: physically, physiologically, psychologically, and socially.

It is the XX and XY chromosomes factor that intuitively drive most girls to like the more cuddly type toys, many different models of pretty outfits, bags, shoes, and jewels whilst boys like guns, fast moving cars, sweat drizzling and body contact type of sports.

The various biological and social factors grant women the 'Jail Free Card' for being irritating and demanding during a certain period at every moon cycle, and for having the wonderful 'womenly touch'. The same factors which are responsible for the men to be inherently a very competitive being and for the thing called the 'Male Ego'.

To be honest, if I were asked whether I would be alright with my partner earning more and being more successful than me, I would not immediately say 'yes'in the next second. I will first need to understand what would be its implications.

In terms of household matters, in addition to being the handyman I am generally happy to help with household matters such as taking out the garbage, mopping, etc. when there are no maids presence.

However, it will definitely hurt my pride as a man when I no longer feel as the 'man of the house'. Women do need to understand this 'sensitive' part of the male world. It is when there is this mutual understanding, that it no longer matters who is more successful and earns more.

A friend of mine, who is my senior several years in her mid 30s is experiencing the same issue voiced by some of the women here. She is "attractive, well-groomed, and poised to boot". She is also an independent woman. She is perplexed as to how with all these qualities, she is yet to find The One. She said men should be happy to have an independent girl like her who will not be clingy and demanding. Isn't that what men want?

That is exactly where she has this mis-conception of men. Being attractive and desired by men is not only about the outer appearances. I think it might be a woman who came up with the term 'being sexy is all about attitude'. Men like a woman who has healthy dose of being dependent of man and exhibits the traits of 'manja', warm and loving. It prides the man that he is needed, useful, and can care for his woman.


And Then

Coming back to the circumstances and choices that play a great part in life.

The same as Indo Bachelorette, some friends and I are may be delusional in thinking why I keep being single albeit qualities that I possess.

The circumstance is that I am working in a line of work, which although is a very well-paying high flying job, it involves long working hours and often denies me the spare time that people with 8-to-6 job have. A classic case of ‘gruelling working life’ vs ‘student life’. It is my choice to not heed the urges of my friends, guys and girls, who are telling me that it is alright to court and date more than one girl at once and not to be too picky to find the One. My choice to not just ‘abruptly’ give out love and instead to search patiently and really find the One to love with whom I can spend the rest of my life. The One woman who loves me and is comfortable in having a career as a means to actualize herself, but will not hesitant to put her family first before anything else. The One with whom I can build a successful and happy family, and when God says “it’s time”, the children are ready and they will be alright to continue the life’s journey on their own. This is what I envision my life and family to be.


Happy Valentine! Maybe tomorrow... I get to see you at Wicker Park.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Well said at_46, well said.
Could not agree more with you.

This should not be at post-column, it should be the next Indonesia Thinking Issue i.e Love Actually Part 2
Editor, what say you?

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

at_46,

Clap clap clap... I'm amazed.... to read such a well written "comment" (I agree it should be the "Part 2") by an Indonesian men, as I’ve always thought that men are poor in expressing themselves.

I respect your personal choice to “search patiently and really find the One to love”. But that’s also a danger sign of a mature person taking a rational view trying to find the best suitable partner.

I, for one, led a simple life; blur blur got to know this girl in school, found her suitable, later married her & now having a happy marriage life. I’m blessed to find the One so easily by being ‘blur’, but in retrospect… I would probably not find her special if I’ve known her after I ‘mature’ because my expectations would have changed, & there’d be many more considerations in my mind. I’m sure you understand what I'm driving at.

And BTW, with your high flying job & eloquent thoughts; you won't need a lot of spare time if you really want to ‘find’ your ONE.

Hi Indo Bachelorette,

May I quote "Men like a woman who has healthy dose of being dependent of man and exhibits the traits of 'manja', warm and loving." I think at_46 put it much better than my original tip “Possible to be the cute little girl that we always dreamed of? ;)”

It’s been a very entertaining (to say the least) few days reading your article & all the comments. Thank you all for sharing.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Interesting perspective..., however the author assume to many stereo typing.
Attributing certain quality to a large group of pelple (ie. indonesian males), is like saying, for instance, all jewish is inferior to Vedic Aryans race. We know what follow next, when one starts make such stereo typing.

It would be more interesting though, to see if what you've written is actually accurate.
But first we must define what "softies men" are.

It is true that some indonesian males has never changed bulb in their life. But it's not because they can't. It is because they can afford not to do it, someone else do it for them.

What is manly men mean to women (specifically to the author)? A financial stable provider? An athelete muscular body? Or perhaps a british genetlement like attitude? These are qualities that are not seldom found in Indonesian males. Unless you want all of these qulities in one person. Not just in indonesian males population, but the world.

Lemme give you an example. Warren Buffet said that if he had lived few centuries earlier, he would have been eaten by lions. Warren Buffet is not macho, nor very good at things around the house (he can't even re heat his own meal). But to any standard, he is a very good provider. Is he manly enough to you?

Honey, just because you haven't found one, doesn't mean there aren't any in the population. Perhaps you have been looking in the wrong place. Or maybe you shouldn't watch to many hollywood make believe movies (ie: How to Loose a Guy in 10 Days), you your expectation is more realistic...

Ciao!

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Wow...there are a lot of comments.

I will just comment on a simple issue 'finding the right partner'.

There a lot of debates about males and females evolution here but evolution is something that always been there because there is change. Our grandparents era is different from our parents era. Our parents era is different from our era. It is a matter of adaption whether in the human relationship or others in general.

Anyway, so as not to divert so much, there is 1 cause that may impede 'finding the right partner'. This cause is not being brought up in here so I just want to add 2 cents worth of my comment here. The cause is 'social life and social circle'. I read once somewhere that the older people get, the smaller their social life. It is because they do not have the energy and time to meet and get to know new people.

For example, when we work, we sometimes or always have to stay late. When work is over, we may feel tired to go out. Going home sweet home is very tempting. If we have time, we prefer to spend it with family and closed friends. This is just a generalisation.

So maybe your right partner is just out there but because you do not try to meet new people and try to know them, your right partner may be as lost as you are. Fate may put you and 'the one' under the same work place or shopping centre or religious places but you have to find him/her yourself.

Oh...since there are singles here, why not try to expand your social circle here? =) Or IPA can arrange party for Indonesian singles to meet up. Love actually blog may become love actually wedding.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Wow, it seem that there are a lot of people wanting to find "The One". I thought that there is no speed dating or matchmaking agency in Singapore and was thinking to set up one.

But then I do a bit of research on the internet, in Singapore there are already lots of online dating like Yahoo asia personal and others, with only small pool of people living in Singapore perhaps only less than 1 million single people, not sure if the business will be viable and profitable to be set up. If anyone has any comments might post reply here.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Being an Indo bacherolette myself who is about to get married in less than 3 months, this article made me look back on the decision that I made a year ago. I left my country when I was 17, during the bitter riot history in 1998 when young women were forced to leave her dreams in her own country for safety. As a person who are holding very tightly on Indonesian culture, it was definitely hard to adapt. It's not just the food, cars, but it's the home that one will always miss.

I had been moving from Malaysia, Australia and finally settled down for the past 8 years in Singapore before I finally decided to return home. Ten years wondering around looking for my own identity. I found success, good career, good friends, in fact, I began to feel comfortable with the peaceful and secured life I had. But I felt something is missing.

I didn't doubt, if the first relationship that I went through did not fail, I would have been still living in Singapore. It had to do with Indonesian women who were trying hard to survive out there, where the competition is tough. I was dating a man for more than 4 years, since the day we were in the University. But somehow, we were unable to settle down at the age when young couples in Indonesia would have got married with kids. So I waited and waited, untiil the day I found out that his parents would have probably prefered him to marry a younger girl from richer background so I gave him up. As some of you may know, matchmaking of couples from the same or better background is common in Indonesia.

After the break up I thought being single is the best for me. I could live happily with lots of savings and I could basically do everything I want. In fact, I can be very ambitious to climb up to the top ladder. But being an Indonesian woman, we can't just run away from the bonded society culture we are born with. Nagging from the parents, questionings from Indo friends and looking at couples around our age who had settled down with kids, somehow, I felt very frustrated. Besides that, It wasn't easy to call up friends to spend the weekend with you anymore, when they have their own datings, family or things to do. Often I ended up watching movie and shopping by myself. I felt I was buggering my friends all the time. Then I see all my single girl friends at their mid 30s, spent all their money for holidays and tour. Lots of self-pampering which will turn oneself to be rather self centered.

I do shivers when I think I have to spend my old age walking on the beach with a dog, looking at other grandparents who play with their grandkids happily. I guess, it will be too late by then for me to tell my parents how lonely I am.

Thank God really, I met a man who finally can sweep my feet away and convince me to settle down with him. But there was a choice to make: Letting go my life in Singapore, my career. all my social life and to start all over again In Indonesia. Living in a new town that I have nvr lived before.

It has been a year since then. For Indonesian women out there, who are wondering how does it feel to return Home for a man that you love, then I have a word to say: It's as tough as those moment when you tried to adapt to a new country. Lots of pains. But definitely worth it.

Coming Home is not comfortable, but the families, the new friends that you are going to make without putting much effort, it makes your life easier. When it comes to career, it wasn't easy to earn as much money as you can earn in other country, but there are lots of opportunities for you to dig, which will make your financial even better. All you need to do is to work harder, be smarter and you will definitely be a lot smarter!. The experience is different. Besides that the food makes you feel home.

So don't be afraid. Being a single can be a good choice, but if God gives you a choice to have a life partner, then all you have to do is to decide whether he is worth it.

Now I learn to live my life for others. I am still working hard as I used to in Singapore but now I know, the money that I save, I can plan it for my children.

And my ex-boyfriend, just married a woman his parents introduced to him. Six months of dating and she is 5 years younger than him. Indonesian man can never get away from his parents' choice. More over she is much younger! :)

The heart beat machine that we saw in hospital, the peaks are always moving up and down to show that one's heart is still beating. If life is constantly in a peaceful straight line, no pain and gain, we are no difference with being dead.

Toast to all Indonesian women where ever they are! :)

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

John, to quote you:

"Which bring me to Joe:
Joe writes "you should identify your own problem and go solve it, rather than waiting for your problem to be solved"
She just did, didn't she?. She identified the problems in such an eloquent way, why she still remains single in her late 20s. But of course, whether those reasons are real and valid is another story.
And I believe she is working on finding the right person, instead of just sittng at home or in office waiting for the prince charm to drop from the sky.
"

If you DO "read the article thoroughly before writing feedback", you'll realize that i used "AND" there, and it meant she should go solve her own problem AFTER she has identified it, rather than just ranting on the problem that she has identified.

The point that i really want to highlight here is, and especially proven by number of comments, how much do you think this article will help your life in a positive way? From my personal perspective, this article is just "infusing" unproven and baseless theory and manipulating people into beliving such "fact" derived from personal and subjective analysis taken from a controlled and selective group of men. This article may not even represent the majority of men. In short, this is toxic knowledge, and it is spreading...

But the good side of this is, there are lots of positive comments sprouting. Good spirit!

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Interesting article and so many comments.. basically it is personal choices whether to get married or not..and millions of reason for each individual to choose when the best age to married, what criteria of man/girl they want to marry etc.. however speaking from experience i do agree that Indonesian men some (if not many) are still quiet convensional in the way they think of woman at home, as in most indonesian family, man are often just sit back while wife or maid do all the house chores, they have been raised that way, as their father and grandfather, and fruit not fall far from it's tree, even though nowadays i see there are many Indo men that respect equality between man an woman especially in home department..

for single womans out there, keep looking around and only settled for the best, for a men who respect you and love u just the way you are, a men who will help you wash the dishes, hang the clothes from drier plus iron it, cook/buy meal for you when u down from illness, and bring you tea in the morning whenever he wakes up first, who does not really care whether you are an executive with high salary or if you are a stay at home wife, until then you have to keep searching, coz men like that do exist..(i married one of them) and the beauty of inside is what matter most, compare to outside look/appearance.

at the end finding true partner and best friend that you can always count on till you both old and wrinkle is what marriage is.... :-),

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Interesting observation and really appreciate the sharing. I read a high sense of self-esteem and encouragement for Indonesian women in the search of the right man. I just don’t think that some of the arguments laid out lead to a healthy conclusion and expectation.

Some arguments lead to stereotyping and could actually backfire and obscure the fact that real gems are probably just around the corner. Individuals are unique and there will be a unique case of relationship for each. Let’s treasure that.

The phrase ‘wait for the one with a healthy self-esteem and capable enough to sweep us off our feet’ doesn’t suggest a proactive approach in making the relationship happens. Relationship takes a continuous effort even before it starts, and marriage obviously is not the end of the road. Sometimes, why not let the process take its place and shape us to the full potential instead. It takes courage to take the plunge. And it certainly takes effort to learn and spot the one with potential and not just currently appear to be the right one.

It does not matter whether it is about women or men from Indonesia or other nation. In this context, it’s probably better to encourage all women/men to discover their true self and proactively works toward better self and giving to others. Relationship does not necessarily work for two outstandingly capable and wonderful persons. But relationship can work the best even for ordinary persons when there is a healthy dose of faith, caring, and mutual respect.

Re: Indonesia Thinking Issue #2: >Love Actually... An Indonesian girl’s perspective on finding The One outside of homeland by Indo Bachelorette

Hmm... it's been a while since I visited this page... I wonder if Indo Bachelorette has found 'The One', and actually am a bit sad that none of the thinking Indonesian girls gave any responses. I was, and still am, genuinely interested to see what their views are on the matter and my sharing of view from 'the other side', kind of hoping rather than seeing a 'battle of the sexes' this column, started by Indo Bachelorette, could be a healthy avenue of 'dialogue of the sexes'.

Or... Indo Bachelorette, would this wondering soul be blessed enough to be graced with your presence..